On the Self-Publishing with ALLi podcast, host Howard Lovy talks to Amelia Ross, a developmental editor and children’s librarian who specializes in KidLit, about what authors need to know when writing for young readers. Amelia explains the differences between board books, picture books, early readers, chapter books, middle grade, and YA, and why age categories matter. She also discusses authentic voice, age-appropriate content, the role of illustrations, and why children’s books work best when lessons emerge naturally through story and character.
Listen to the Podcast: Writing and Editing Books for Young Readers
About the Host
Howard Lovy is an author, developmental editor, and writing coach with a long career in journalism and publishing. He works with writers at many stages of their careers, with a focus on helping them develop their ideas and strengthen their work while preserving their unique voices. He lives in Northern Michigan.
About the Guest
Amelia Denyven Ross is a developmental editor for KidLit authors. She has an MFA in children’s literature and has studied fiction for young readers for twenty years. During that time, she has also worked with children and teens in public libraries and schools, where she has led story times, facilitated book clubs, and mentored teen writers. Now, as a freelance editor, she splits her time between the library and working remotely from her home in Virginia’s Blue Ridge Mountains. Amelia is an active member of the Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators, the Editorial Freelancers Association, and the Alliance of Independent Authors.
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Read the Transcript
Howard Lovy: Hi, I'm Howard Lovy, and this is the Self-Publishing with ALLi podcast. I'm an author, developmental editor, and writing coach at howardlovy.com, and today we're talking about editing for young readers — from picture books and chapter books to middle grade and young adult novels. My guest is Amelia Ross, a developmental editor who specializes in kid lit. Amelia has an MFA in children's literature and nearly 20 years of experience studying and writing fiction for young readers. She has also worked with children and teens in libraries, schools, and other settings, giving her a strong understanding of the readers these books are meant to reach. Amelia, thank you for joining me.
Amelia Ross: Thank you for having me.
Background: From Writing to Developmental Editing
Howard Lovy: Let's begin with your background. How did you get into this business and begin editing for children?
Amelia Ross: Like a lot of developmental editors, I entered through the writing side. My undergrad degree was in creative writing, and then my MFA was in children's literature, so I'd always been interested in books written for children. Even as an adult, that's what I gravitated toward — especially middle grade and young adult novels. There's something unique to kid lit: a sense of wonder, an openness in the characters to learn and grow that you don't get quite as much in adult literature. That central theme of wonder has drawn me back time and again.
Initially I was writing. I spent a long time in critique groups and wrote everything from picture books up through YA. Then, especially during the pandemic, I hit a lot of psychological blocks — I realized I was feeling more stress than joy from writing. But I felt none of that when editing or critiquing for other people. It brought me so much joy. Have you seen The Queen's Gambit? When she's laying on her bed and she sees the chess pieces moving in her head, working all the problems together — that's a bit how developmental editing works for me. I can look at a manuscript and see the pieces that need to move into place. Troubleshooting novels just brings me so much joy.
I've been working with critique groups for over 20 years. I launched into freelancing about five years ago and have loved it. I also continue to work in the library system as a children's librarian, part-time now, though I was full-time for 10 years. I like having both worlds — I'm in touch with readers firsthand, seeing what they're reading, while also being in touch with writers.
Howard Lovy: It must be fun being a librarian. What's it like right now?
Amelia Ross: It's different every day. We're in the midst of summer reading right now, and I just love seeing kids coming in, still reading books, sprawled out on the floor with their books laid out around them. It brings me a lot of joy.
Howard Lovy: They're not yet at the phase where they have to act like they don't care about anything. They still have that sense of wonder.
Defining the Categories: From Board Books to YA
Howard Lovy: Before we go into specifics, let's define our terms. What are the categories under the Kid Lit umbrella?
Amelia Ross: Board books would be the earliest — for babies who are literally going to chew on the book. They're made of that glossy cardboard and are essentially indestructible. A lot of board books feature simple shapes and words, often in black and white because babies respond to contrast more than color.
Then come picture books. In traditional publishing, picture books are ideally 500 words or less. They're actually written at a higher vocabulary level than, say, an early reader, because an adult is reading to the child. The standard format is 32 pages with illustrations and text. Typically you have about 28 pages of text and illustration to work with, after front and back matter.
Then you have early readers, also called leveled readers — books with words leveled for children just learning to read. They're written to build a reader's confidence, and they typically show the reading level on the spine or back. Those are almost always put out by book packagers rather than written by independent authors.
Then there's a really growing field called early chapter books — highly illustrated chapter books for emerging readers, typically between 1,000 and 3,500 words. They're almost always a series: Rabbit and Bear, Cornbread and Poppy, Wallace and Grace. This is a big growing area of the market.
Howard Lovy: Why is that growing so much now?
Amelia Ross: Publishers realized that young readers weren't quite ready to give up the gorgeous illustrations of picture books. They needed another step between the I Can Read early readers and full chapter books. Something was getting lost between those two. Early chapter books fill that gap perfectly.
After that you get into older chapter books — roughly 3,500 to 10,000 words. Magic Tree House is on the upper end of that. Junie B. Jones falls there too. These will typically have one or two illustrations per chapter, transitioning to black and white, gradually moving the reader toward less illustration and more text.
Then middle grade novels — anywhere from about 15,000 to 50,000 words, for readers roughly 9 to 12 or 9 to 14. A full novel with a character arc and a complete plot.
Then there's a gap right now between upper middle grade and lower YA that's very hard to find books for — ages 10 to 14. Traditional publishers are a little afraid to take a chance there. But I think it's a great opportunity for indie authors, because in the library we see a lot of readers who have progressed beyond the middle grade reading level but aren't quite ready for full-on YA content.
And then YA — 15 to 18 — is essentially just like an adult novel but with teen characters.
Howard Lovy: I've read that characters should be a little bit older than the readers themselves, because readers tend to read up.
Amelia Ross: That's correct. Your characters would always be about two years older, because your reader is going to read up. It's very rare that they'll read down to a younger character.
Rules vs. Trends: How Indie Authors Can Break Them Wisely
Howard Lovy: We're the Alliance of Independent Authors, so we're all independent-minded. Do indie authors sometimes not follow the rules? Is there room to blend those categories, or is it pretty strict even in the indie world?
Amelia Ross: I wouldn't view them as rules exactly — more as market trends, because they move with the brain development of children. The rule about keeping picture books under 500 words isn't just because publishers decided so — it's because today's attention spans are much shorter than they were even five or ten years ago. Older picture books from the 1960s are three times the length they are now. Even from the 1990s they were twice as long. Part of that is understanding the way children's brains work. Graphic novels are a huge genre now because children are so much more visually driven.
That said, I do tell indie authors: you have more freedom, and that's often why you've chosen to be indie. The important thing is to understand the reason behind the trends so you understand how and where you might break them. If you tried to submit to an agent with a character aged 10 to 14, they'd say there's no market for this. But a lot of times it takes indie authors taking the chance — and then suddenly publishers say, ‘Oh, maybe there is a market after all.' So it's about understanding why trends exist, and then learning how to break them intelligently.
Working with New Clients: Setting Expectations from Scratch
Howard Lovy: When you get a new client, do they already understand some of these breakdowns, or do you have to help define the age group for them?
Amelia Ross: I do a lot of from-scratch discussion. Especially with picture books — a lot of people come in wanting to do Dr. Seuss-style rhyming, or they come in with a moral. That's very much how picture books were written in the '50s and '60s, and the audience has changed significantly. I give context on typical word counts, but I always say the best thing is to go to the library, get a stack of books at the level you're aiming for, find one you want your book to be like, and use that as your mentor text. Almost always with any kind of kid lit, I start by making sure we're on the same page about categories. If an author understands the categories and wants to move in a different direction anyway, that's fine — as long as they understand the reasons behind the standards.
Content, Voice, and Age-Appropriate Material
Howard Lovy: I'm also a developmental editor, though I handle very few books aimed at younger readers. I have one client whose book could be in that 10 to 14 range, but it's about a violent historical period — it has blood, some sex. How do you handle those situations in terms of telling the author what's acceptable?
Amelia Ross: It's hard, especially with book banning being so prevalent. I try to be very careful not to censor, but I always approach it from a marketing standpoint. If you want your books in schools, if you're writing middle grade, aim for PG content. There's no rating system for kids' books, but in general for middle grade fiction: very little language, and if there is violence, it has to be essential to the plot and not graphic. Say it's set in Nazi Germany and there's no way around depicting that — it's there, but it's done with purpose, not gratuitously. In terms of your responsibility to the young reader, you always have to ask at what point content becomes trauma. Typically for middle grade you're not going to have language or explicit sexuality — those belong more in YA content.
Howard Lovy: I'm going to play this part of the recording for my client.
Amelia Ross: A big focus for me is voice. It's very hard, especially for middle grade, to write an authentic young person's voice that doesn't sound like an adult trying to sound like a child, or a child acting way beyond their years. When you read it, it almost comes across as condescending, or the child is responding in ways that no child actually would. And there's the issue of morals — of trying to teach a lesson. That's an adult talking down to the child.
Howard Lovy: You mentioned no morals — the moral of the story is always an adult talking down.
Amelia Ross: Exactly. When I ask an author, ‘Why does this story matter? Why are you writing it?' — if it's agenda-driven or propaganda in some sense, that becomes clear. We talk a lot about how to get to the heart of theme instead. If you can boil it down to one word — love, control, belonging — and then flesh that theme out through your character, that's the approach. Young readers are very smart and very intuitive. They know when they're being taught a lesson, and they shut that down very fast. The question to ask is not ‘what do I want my reader to learn?' but ‘how does this character transform into a different person by the end?'
Howard Lovy: I've seen some bad children's books — I used to be an editor at Foreword Reviews, and the worst ones try to teach you a lesson. But on the other hand, that desire to teach a lesson is why some people get into children's books in the first place. They want to write about the environment, about history, about something that matters. How do you combine both?
Amelia Ross: That's where theme comes in. There are a lot of children's books focused on big world issues, but it's told through the character and their situation — the character is learning it through narrative, through their character arc, versus having a moral imposed from the outside. Kate DiCamillo does a wonderful job of this: heartfelt, warm stories that you walk away from feeling like you've learned something, experienced some truth, but she does it subtly, all through the character's journey. It's the same for books for adults — have the characters experience it, rather than a disembodied narrator telling you what to think and feel.
Working with Illustrators
Howard Lovy: Let's talk about illustrations. Sometimes there's a different illustrator working with the author. How do you combine forces there?
Amelia Ross: It really depends on how the author chooses to work. In traditional publishing, the author would find an agent, who would shop it with publishers, who have an in-house illustrator. The book is essentially 50/50 author and illustrator, and they don't really work hand-in-hand at all — the illustrator makes it their own and you have no say over the cover art. As an indie author you have so much more say, and it can be wonderfully collaborative.
When I'm helping edit a picture book, once we've gone through several rounds and are pretty close on the text, I encourage the author to do a storyboard — laying out all 32 pages and deciding where images will go. That's the point to bring in the illustrator and start sharing the text and discussing the images together. One of the easiest ways to trim your word count is to look at what the illustrations will tell. You'll have very specific descriptions like ‘the boy in the red shirt grabbed the gorilla' — and you don't need any of that because the illustration will show it. As a picture book author you have to be thinking visually: half the story is being told through images.
Howard Lovy: Is it part of your job as a developmental editor to be a kind of traffic cop between the illustrator and the author?
Amelia Ross: No — I hardly ever work with an illustrator. I work on the text and get it ready for the author to then work with their illustrator. Sometimes they'll come back after storyboarding and want a final pass to make sure any changes are still working, but my focus is primarily text.
Authentic Voice and What Motivates Kid Lit Authors
Howard Lovy: You talked earlier about how kids can tell whether a young character's voice feels authentic. How do you evaluate that?
Amelia Ross: From the author's point of view: go out and just listen. Go to the library, sit and listen to the way children are speaking. It's okay for the voice to be a little more advanced than the reader's current level, because part of it is modeling — a thought process and growth. But a good way to tell if the voice is authentic is to constantly ask: am I trying to teach something right here, or am I experiencing it as the child? It's almost like method acting — trying to view the situation through that lens. Spending time with children helps enormously. If you're a parent, sit down and say, ‘Here's a situation — how would you respond?' Or: ‘How would you retell this experience in your own words?'
Howard Lovy: What generally motivates Kid Lit authors? Are they trying to get a message across, do they love children, do they want to impart a lesson?
Amelia Ross: A lot depends on the author and the genre. I don't know if you've heard the term, but children's books are supposed to be both mirrors and windows — a mirror to show the reader that there's someone else like them, a reflection of themselves, versus a window into other worlds and cultures. It kind of depends on whether you're writing a mirror or a window. But I feel this with every author, not just children's authors: the story should be front and center, and the character. A lot of times people downplay entertainment, but simply writing an entertaining story is a noble cause, and a lot of times that's all a reader wants.
Fiction vs. Nonfiction, and the Growing Blend
Howard Lovy: Let's talk briefly about genre. Are there general rules that differentiate fiction from nonfiction in Kid Lit?
Amelia Ross: Nonfiction has gone up quite a bit in popularity. There are some amazing series that have popularized it — the Who Would Win? nonfiction series, for example, where it's facts-based but you're learning about two animals while trying to work out which one would beat the other. Young readers love those. And then there's the Who Was? / What Was? / What Is? series — a whole range of biographies and history titles. Those are wildly popular, probably third through fifth grade reading level.
Howard Lovy: It's a series that makes learning fun — they don't even know they're learning.
Amelia Ross: Exactly. And now you see a blending of the two. Picture books almost always include back matter now — facts that tie in to the story. That's an effort to appeal to curriculum and teachers: you could read this book in your classroom and also tie it into your curriculum. So you'll have a fiction picture book with nonfiction back matter, which is also a great marketing tool. The blending of fiction and nonfiction is quite significant.
Advice for Authors Writing for Young People
Howard Lovy: What advice would you give to an author who wants to write for young people but is worried about getting the voice, the age level, or anything else right?
Amelia Ross: The first step is read, read, read. Find books in the age group you're interested in and read as many as you can — specifically books written in the last three to five years. Don't worry about incorporating current lingo or technology because it's going to be outdated by the time you're published.
I also find that listening to audiobooks gives you a better sense of the flow of dialogue and the storytelling quality. Hearing a story is very different from reading it. But the main thing is read, read, read — and write, write, write. It might come out with the voice not being right, or you might not even realize you've incorporated a lesson until you look back at the draft. That's okay. Nothing is beyond saving. I think the best quality in a writer is teachability — just being able to say, ‘Oh, I did do that. How do we work around it?'
Book Banning and Controversial Content
Howard Lovy: One final question — and you can opt out if you'd like, because the last thing I want to do is get into politics. But politics always enters the equation when it comes to children's books, especially as a librarian. How cognizant are you of issues important to grown-ups when you edit these books?
Amelia Ross: Book banning is real, and there are definitely steps being taken to remove books that don't align with certain groups' standards for what's appropriate. At the same time, there's a digging-in from writers to create more. There's a pendulum swinging. I'm an advocate for books being written from any worldview. Where we get into trouble is when a book is written just to convert people from one line of thinking to another, rather than making it a story about a character who might be struggling with something. Making it a character's story is always the way to go.
Howard Lovy: That's a good answer to an impossible question. Thank you. Well, thank you, Amelia. Where can people find you on the web?
Amelia Ross: I'm at ameliadenyvenross.com — that's A-M-E-L-I-A D-E-N-Y-V-E-N-R-O-S-S dot com. I'm also part of the Editorial Freelancers Association, and I help lead their Kid Lit chapter. But mainly everything's on my website. I'm not a social media person.
Howard Lovy: That's smart. Well, thank you, Amelia. I appreciate your expertise and your time.
Amelia Ross: Thank you.
Howard Lovy: Bye.
