In this episode of the Self-Publishing with ALLi podcast, host Dale L. Roberts chats with branding expert Dan Blank about building authentic connections, balancing creativity with marketing, and the key role of branding in an author’s success. Dan shares tips on audience growth, cost-effective strategies, avoiding pitfalls, and staying true to your voice while adapting to trends.
Listen to the Podcast: Building Authentic Connections with Your Audience
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About the Host
Dale L. Roberts is a self-publishing advocate, award-winning author, and video content creator. Dale’s inherent passion for life fuels his self-publishing advocacy both in print and online. After publishing over 50 titles and becoming an international bestselling author on Amazon, Dale started his YouTube channel, Self-Publishing with Dale. Selected by Feedspot and LA Weekly as one of the best sources in self-publishing of 2022, Dale cemented his position as the indie-author community's go-to authority. You can find Dale on his website or YouTube.
About the Guest
Dan Blank is the founder of WeGrow Media and helps writers develop a human-centered approach to marketing and reaching their readers. He believes writers have a unique ability to create stories that inspire and connect people. For over a decade, he has worked full-time with thousands of writers and creators, helping them build meaningful connections with their audiences.
Read the Transcripts
Dale L. Roberts: Have you ever wondered how to truly connect with your audience and turn your writing into a sustainable career? Branding and marketing can feel overwhelming, but today we're breaking it all down with someone who's been helping authors find their voice and build their audience for over a decade.
Welcome to the Self-Publishing with ALLi podcast. I'm your host, Dale L. Roberts. Today, I'm thrilled to be joined by Dan Blank, founder of We Grow Media. Dan is a branding, marketing, and audience building expert who has worked with thousands of writers and creative professionals. His approach isn't about chasing trends, or a one size fits all strategy. It's all about creating meaningful, authentic connections with readers while staying true to your unique vision as an author. Get ready for a conversation packed with actionable advice and fresh perspectives.
Welcoming to the Self-Publishing with ALLi Podcast, Dan Blank. How are you doing, Dan?
Dan Blank: Wonderful. Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.
Dale L. Roberts: I'm super geeked up, especially since our mutual friend, Matty Dalrymple of The Indy Author podcast had shared a little bit about you, and I'm like, okay, I've got to hear more about this guy because you said something that really resonated with me, and it's about not chasing trends. It's about not trying to go for this one size fits all marketing package, if you will.
Share with me a little bit more about why you buck that normal trend, because you see a lot of YouTubers that are like, follow this trend and you can do this with all this.
Dan Blank: Yeah. When we think about this from two levels, one is the personal fulfilment level of a writer wanting to connect, and then the hard business level.
I am someone who has a book or has a writing career, I want to grow my audience of people who will buy my work, support my work, talk about my work.
When you view it from either level, but even if we just focus on the business level, it's about the basics. It's about this idea of relationships. Talk to any business owner in any industry and talk about how relationships are critical to what they do.
When we look at this idea of, how do I grow, people get so hung up on the technology. And the technology is powerful, and we can talk all about that, I help people with all the time, but right now, like with social media, we are in this bizarre place where social media is imploding and changing and resurrecting on a near daily basis. People don't know what to do, so they feel like, should I be on social media or not on social media? It's a very odd binary.
This idea that you can connect with your readers, connect with colleagues, connect with other writers, email podcasters, conference chairs, all of this stuff, it is helped by social media, but does not require social media.
And I think that people hide behind the technology. They hide behind, I'm going to follow them, I'm going to click, like, I will subscribe. These very dainty little things. If I say, why don't you email them? Oh, I don't want to bother them.
How are you going to grow your career? How are you taking this serious from a business perspective if you won't even send an email.
I'm 52, so I go back to the time where what I had to do was cold call people, or I had to go to New York City and try to get a meeting, and then have to figure out how to navigate that meeting, how to make an ask in person.
We have so many more ways about connecting with people, and it's not ignoring trends. It's not relying solely on trends as the only thing that will save us, and without BookTok, there's no way to do it.
BookTok is amazing, but building relationships with people who are on BookTok, will help you regardless of what happens with that platform.
Dale L. Roberts: Yeah, this is really cool. Let me dial it back here just really quick, because I think I got so excited.
I wanted to talk to you a little bit more about creating authentic connections with readers, something that you had said through your site and service. What does that process look like for authors that are just starting out?
Because obviously, there's a ton of overwhelm, social media, email lists. Oh my gosh, where do I start?
Dan Blank: Yeah, so if we think about the channel perspective first. For a long time, I've talked about, as have many people, the importance of email.
Newsletters have come back around as being fashionable. I've had a weekly email newsletter for 20 years. So, it's really nice that Substack came around and made that popular again, even if you're not on Substack, newsletters in general are important.
It's this idea of being able to reach your biggest supporters when you want to. Not relying on an algorithm, although algorithms are fine.
So, this idea of knowing that you have a home base, so a website, an email list, however you use that, where you can reach out to them and they'll actually receive that message when your book goes on sale, when you want to promote a pre-order or asking people to post a review, or something like that.
Social media is supportive of all of this. It is the glue that can hold things together, that when I reach out to someone saying, oh, hey, Dale, I love your work, and then you look me up on social media. So, it's a part of the process of, who is this guy? Oh, okay, now I see what he's about. I see he's been out here for a while. I can click through and see his site. It's supporting the relationship that might happen through email or through a newsletter or from some other kind of direct outreach.
I think that when people consider how they develop a connection with readers, social media and influencers have taught us that they resonate with real people.
All these influencers out there, and I use this not as a derogatory term, this is a positive term in the way that, I mean it, people like them because they relate to them, they're curious about them, they feel a kinship with them.
It can be different emotions, but they want to wake up and go to their feed, and see what that person posted in their stories overnight, or what the video is about their shopping trip, or what they saw when they went to the bookstore that they would love to go to. It's not just the message, these people are like vessels that kind of bring us into a world, and we all have that same power.
We all have our own unique perspective. We have our way of looking at things. We are writers. So, for me, my newsletter last week was 3,500 words.
I'm not saying it has to be that. It was about social media, so it had a lot to say, but that was how I wanted to craft it, and what I love is that you have the tools to communicate the way people communicate nowadays.
For engaging readers, it's really about giving them something to follow along with that really resonates with them.
One more thing I'll say is, a lot of writers will say, my book's not coming out for two years, what do I have to say? I don't have any news for them.
What do you write about? What are the themes you write about? Why do those themes matter? How do people come into those themes? What do they hope for? What are other books, other movies, other films that relate to that?
If you just write about underdogs or write about romance or whatever it is, figure out those underlying themes. I call them key messages, and figure out, how do I write about that if I'm. If I write about this, I'm so curious about it. How can I share that curiosity on a weekly basis in the year building up to my book launch, so that my friends who never knew I wrote thrillers aren't like, oh, Dan wrote a thriller, that's weird. They're like, of course Dan wrote a thriller. I get his newsletter; he always writes about the intersection of this and that.
Dale L. Roberts: Nice. All right. Next question.
At least for me, I've noticed that many authors struggle with balancing creativity and marketing. So, how can writers find a balance between the two without losing their passion?
I think there's a lot of times where people are like, I've got to market and then they get burned out. Or they're like, I don't really want to market because I'm too busy being creative. So, where do we find that balance between?
Dan Blank: So, usually when I'm working with someone, we're identifying their creative time first.
Their writing time is sacred and that's the thing we're optimizing for when they write, in the morning or the evening, whatever that is, and really understanding that.
For the marketing side of it, usually we're not trying to be everywhere and do everything. It's the idea of, what are simple ways you can share your passion, share your exploration, and then how do we get more mileage out of it?
A lot of people keep recreating the wheel. They keep trying to be clever or they only post to, let's say, Instagram when something interesting happens.
Even for me, if I write a weekly newsletter, and let's say it clearly shouldn't be 3,500 words. Let's say, it's 600 words, there's enough of an idea once a week in those 500-600 words that you can then on social media ask three questions or post three ideas that come directly from the newsletter.
Then maybe there's 30 people you follow who inspire you, who evoke some sense of the themes you write about, and you reshare or recommend some of their work, even the mildest way. What's the minimum you can do to just share about your passion, share about your process, and share about other things you see that would align with what your readers already like?
You don't have to reinvent the wheel all the time. It's just doing those basics of, if you're someone who says, I show up to write every week, prove it.
Not that you've got to prove it at this level, prove it at the most basic level. I wrote 400 words today, got that chapter done. Just heard about this new book in my genre, can't wait to read it. A question I've been struggling with, or just these little things. If you were a writer going to a writing group or retreat that you spent thousands of dollars on, this is what you talk about over coffee, so why can't you do it in a small way?
Newsletter, social media, podcast, what have you.
Dale L. Roberts: Nice. I like it. I see a recurring theme here with some of the advice that you're sharing. This is really awesome. I'm sure we're probably going to keep tapping into it, but what I would love to focus on is the big buzzword “branding”, but it can feel rather nebulous, just a little bit hard to define.
How do you define branding for authors, and what's the first step in building one?
Dan Blank: I define it, I think, in an unusual way. It's two components. It is very effective communication and a sense of trust.
There are things that I'm doing right here, if you're watching a video, that are in some ways branded. I've got a nice background; I've decorated this bookcase with old typewriters. I'm wearing a pressed shirt; I've got studio lighting. That's branding in some ways, but the way that I think really matters to people is that they know what you write about. They know why you're passionate about it. They know that you found a way to tap into their passion for this.
Maybe it's not just your writing, maybe it's your love of a certain niche, of a certain kind of literary community. So, many people, the most terrifying thing you could ask them is, tell me about what you're writing, and they just freeze. They don't know what to say.
So, this idea of effectively saying, I write romance, and you know what always gets me is, I'm curious about this intersection of dah. Learning how to do that, and that takes time to figure that out, and that's why the idea of frequency, however you share, really matters.
So, learning how to talk about that is the first part.
I talk to a lot of writers, I'm like, what else do you read in your genre? Oh, I don't read in my genre.
Dale L. Roberts: What?
Dan Blank: It happens a lot, and it's people's choices. I respect that in a way, but I'm like, if you are publishing, if you're engaging in the business side of this, understanding the marketplace is really important from a business standpoint.
The other part, the trust side, is what we go back to what I call the human-centred marketing. That idea of people feeling connected with you. It's not just a product that you're selling.
We're rather evolved in this, and there's a lot of classic examples, but the idea of, they like your perspective on it, or they really like you because you're also a gardener and it just warms their heart. You write these cozy mysteries, and you've got this beautiful little garden in your backyard, and it gives them all that feeling where they find a kinship with you in some ways.
That sense that they want to hear from you. So, when your newsletter comes in, they don't view it as, oh, this author is marketing at me, it's, oh, it's Rebecca's newsletter, I always love that she shares a photo of her garden.
I've done this for years where I have a photo at the end of my newsletter of my kids. I share little updates on what they're doing, and I get a lot of people saying, look, Dan, I don't always have time to read your newsletter, but I always scroll and look at the picture of your kids, and it warms my heart. I don't mean for that to be a brand, it's just me sharing my life, but it is part of that sense of trust, a part of them, not just knowing who I am, but caring about who I am, and caring about my role in their life, and my role is a very specific one.
Dale L. Roberts: What about some of the authors out there, and I see there are so many authors, very creative individuals where they're multi-genre, they're going out and they're writing were-bear shapeshifter romances, they're doing car repair manuals, they're doing children's books.
What would be your recommendation for branding when it comes to a multi-genre author?
Dan Blank: I love that, and often what I'll do with someone is we'll try to find the deeper, again, the key messages that underscore that.
So, if you're writing thrillers and romance and repair manuals, usually there's these core ideas of, you know what it is, I like figuring out how things work. I find that when you look under the hood, if it's a murder mystery, if it's a romance, if it's a car, there's things going on people don't see. I like finding those connections. So, they find a way to talk about that. So, it's like I'm naturally someone who, of course, I write about repairing cars, and I write about romances, and I write about murder mysteries. Of course, I do because this is that underlying message.
It's how you share the connective tissue, and then I think it's how you show your passion for that, because that's what people like following along with.
You think about these actors that we follow. Every movie is a weirdo different movie. It's totally different. Yet we like them, or we like their passion, or we say, why is she in that role? And you see an interview and you're like, oh, that's interesting. Part of their job is for us to see them in a different way, and what we're seeing is, wow, when she chooses a role, she just, you know what she does.
Again, we have a way of saying that, oh, our favorite actors, that's what we love about them.
Dale L. Roberts: Very cool. I've never thought about it in that regard, and that's just such a refreshing way and mindset of looking at that. How did you ever come to something like that?
Dan Blank: That's a thing I just made up. So, I don't know where that came from.
No, I did a video yesterday for my Substack where I profiled a woman who I just saw, she's recommended, and I do these little case studies. She is a pastry chef. She's a business owner. Her feed is mostly outfits of her, she's also this incredible decorator, and she's a mother and a spouse and all that too. The whole piece was about, you can be more than one thing.
There were like two photos in her whole feed about her pastry chef stuff, and I was talking about, I love this. She's just a creative human being, and while she does have a restaurant and she's a pastry chef, she also brings that to how she styles these outfits, and she brings that to how she decorates her house.
It felt to me like, oh, I can really see how these three different things exist in her, and she has a quarter million followers and now a quarter million plus one with me, where it was just fun to see how this comes out. It was all very unusual. Even her handle is home run ballerina. She has nothing to do with baseball and nothing to do with dancing. So, it's like an anti-branding example. But I loved it, because I can see why people follow her.
She has this passion and this way of sharing it that even though the disciplines might be categorized in different places in a library, they felt connected because it was all through her passion, her unique vision of the world.
Dale L. Roberts: I love it. Transitioning over into something that I think a lot of people, of course we've already discussed some mistakes here. When it comes to audience building, what are common mistakes that you see authors make currently?
Dan Blank: Oh boy, this is a fun one.
Dale L. Roberts: Is this going to take the next two hours?
Dan Blank: One, I think, is judging success too quickly. I'll go back to that example of that, her name is Audrey. You scroll all the way back, all of her first Instagram posts: 20 likes, 30 likes, 19 likes, 40 likes, for years. Then you see it bump up to over a hundred. Then you see it bump over 300, then up to a thousand.
She was posting those outfits to basically a tiny audience for months and months and months. I talked to so many writers who were like, oh, I tried Substack, it was so embarrassing, I got 10 subscribers. What's the point? And they stop after two months and three issues.
Again, even from a business standpoint view of this, what business would do that?
A new bakery is opening up a block here. If they open up after four days and say, no, we only sold 12 cupcakes, what's the point, we're going to close. No, they would stick it out. They would try new promotions. They would show the {inaudible} Chamber of Commerce. They would give gift baskets to all their neighbors. They would offer coupons to the Cub Scouts. They would do some Facebook ads. They would just keep trying things to figure out.
We're going to tap into this community, there's a way to tap in with our very unique pastries. They're not open yet, I don't know what they're going to sell, and they would keep at it.
So, I think the big mistake is judging success too quickly and taking it personally.
The other thing I think is half baking it, and I don't mean to sound judgy with that. Instagram is a very good example of this, but it works for any platform. They go on and they do what everyone else is doing, and they do the minimum.
The Instagram example is, they just do the photos in the square feed because that's what they think of Instagram. That's what Instagram started as. Even though if you want to succeed on Instagram, on YouTube, on TikTok, anywhere, you have to do the vertical video. That is what they are sharing to people. It's vertical video, and right away you're going to say, oh no, I don't want to do video.
That's fine, you don't have to do it. But if you have an expectation of, I'm joining BookTok and I want to grow, or I'm joining Bookstagram and I want to grow, and you're not doing vertical video, it's almost like you're not even showing up at that point.
So, maybe you then decide you're not going to do it, which I respect.
But you can't say, oh, I tried it, it didn't work. If you don't really use the one tool that they are almost requiring you to use to grow.
Dale L. Roberts: I think sometimes with the video, it seems overwhelming to a lot of folks, and I can reassure people that I've been in the business here of YouTube for the past nine years, and like what you said, it started out with crickets. It's one of the worst feelings in the world when you put your heart and soul into a product and it comes back with two views, 10 views, something like that. But yeah, you've just got to stick and stay. You've got to grind it out. You have to figure out why aren't people resonating with this? So, I love some of this information.
Rather than trying to steal the spotlight here from you, I feel it's important that we go ahead and transition over to something.
You emphasize sustainable careers for writers, it's very clear. What are a few key practices authors can adopt to ensure longevity in the publishing world?
Dan Blank: Relationships. Have colleagues. Please, I beg of you, develop colleagues with other writers, other people in the space.
I understand that writing itself can be a lone endeavor. I respect that. Very isolated. I grew up as an artist.
If you try to go it alone, if you don't have other people who can be accountability partners, other people you can talk to. I just got off the phone with a friend, but they're also a writer and creator, and we're just checking in and everything feels better when you do that.
I beg of you, whether you go to a conference or find someone you follow, send them a message, I just started following you, or I listened to your podcast, or we met at that one conference, and just send a gratitude email. Just check in on them once a quarter. It doesn't have to be that much. You don't have to bug them, and develop colleagues.
Dale L. Roberts: What was the question again?
What are a few key practices authors can adopt to ensure longevity in the publishing world? So, you're saying networking is one really good key practice. What are some other ones?
Dan Blank: That's one. Publishing frequently, obviously, with your book, and there are authors I work who are publishing 10 books this year. Most people, that's not what they're doing. They're publishing at best one book a year, and that's a lot for most people. That's fine. This is why we have social or podcasts or newsletters, where you're publishing something frequently.
So that when you do the ramp up to one book and there's that gap for three years, you're not going away. People are still hearing from you, you're still showing up.
I'm telling you, when you show up like this, opportunities that you can't even imagine are going to pop in. Someone's going to say, oh, a friend of a friend sent me your thing, or I saw they commented, would you come on my podcast? It's these opportunities you can't figure out.
So, the consistency is another one.
Then it is being open to challenging your assumptions and learning. So, this whole idea with, again, vertical video is a great example where people are still resistant to this, and I understand that.
Or sending a newsletter, so many people I'll talk to are like, fine, Dan, I'll send a newsletter. I'll do once a month, I think that's the max anyone ever wants to hear. People don't like email, Dan. I get this all the time and I'm like, you're making this up.
I've sent out a weekly newsletter for 20 years. I have clients where we've seen the growth quadruple the newsletter by sending weekly, or sending twice weekly.
So, challenging these assumptions and understanding why we have them, and experimenting a little bit before we decide that we can't do this and we can't do that, and we can't do this other thing.
Dale L. Roberts: It's so funny how some people will put their own personal filter on of how they see the world and perceive the market to be like. I'm a consumer, so everybody else should feel that way.
I think it's so funny whenever I hear somebody saying, email marketing is dead, or emails don't work, or I don't like being bugged by emails, and I'm like, okay, you're just giving me more opportunity to go ahead and communicate with the people who are opening their emails.
So, it's just incredible and I'm glad that you brought up something like that.
Now, here's a very hot topic, and I know this is a loaded question because it's regarding money.
Marketing budgets vary widely. Gosh, it's so crazy. Some people have nothing, and some people will have plenty of something. What are some cost-effective strategies for authors with limited resources?
Dan Blank: Have a plan.
When I work with people, and you can do this without me. A year before your book launch, develop a 12-month plan to get to launch, but a 12-month plan after that.
And that's scary, so just very broad strokes. Think of quarters. This quarter is networking to figure out understanding the marketplace. I'm getting lists of people on TikTok, figuring out conferences I might want to go to.
{Inaudible}.
Next phase. Again, we're still months and months out. Now, I'm doing this and I'm starting to keep up with my newsletter. I'm starting to send some feeler emails out, just to build connections at a light level. I'm not asking anything yet.
Really building a plan, and I think that this helps you figure out, what do I want my book launch to be?
Where, if you're someone who says, you know what, I want a lot of reviews on Amazon that first month. Great. Have a plan for every single review. One review at a time. How are we getting those first five? Who is it going to be? I guess friends and family, great. Let's get a piece of paper, write down the names. How do you make it so easy for them to get the book, to understand what the book is about, to know how to go to Amazon, how to click review, how to leave a thoughtful review. How do you help them do that?
When do you tell them? When do you remind them? What about the next five? Who are they going to be? Oh, that would be, if I go on that podcast and then I can offer this bonus. Great, let's get that mapped out.
It's really just a lot of planning, it's a lot of the networking, and then it's a lot of collaboration.
This is something else that people have talked about, which is, yeah, your audience is probably small. How do you get in front of other people's audiences?
Right now, I'm getting in front of your audience and that means a lot to me because it's a lot of trust. You've spent years and years building this audience, so that means a lot to me, and that's also why I'm trying to be really helpful.
This idea of collaboration, whether someone is featuring your work, do you feature them first? You say, I'm going to spend two years before my book launch featuring other people, because that's how they will notice me. There are so many people I know who are influencers now, they spent two years just promoting other people.
Wow. Her new book is out, I'm so excited to read it. Here it is at the bookstore. And they do it again, and they got on people's radar, people felt they were generous to them.
You don't have to do it that way, but it is these things where if you want people to notice you, you've got to think about what would get them to notice you? Talking about their stuff, inviting them to do things, showcasing their work, and it is building your audience.
You might think that an audience of 200 people is “nothing”. If half of them post a review for your book in the first month, it's a hundred reviews in the first month. That's a game changer. Then you can talk about what that does to the algorithm and all that kind of stuff.
Dale L. Roberts: I think it's so funny whenever I hear some people, they're like, oh, I've only got 60 email subscribers. Dude, that's more than zero. That's the way I look at it. You have someone to talk to, and that's definitely a step in the right direction.
Now, you've worked with countless authors. I'd love to hear you share a success story where branding and marketing significantly transformed someone's career.
Dan Blank: There's a couple different examples. I guess the two I'll give quickly. One is when I worked with a novelist, Miranda Beverly Whitmore, and this is going back, but we got to the point on the checklist of saying, do a giveaway.
I even published like the text message chain with her permission and we're like, oh, I don't want to do this.
We're like, how do we make it fun? Well, let's flip it. Instead of just giving away your book, there's all these other writers in literary fiction that have book's coming out.
Long story short, we brought in a partner, Julie Fierro, who was running Saka Street Writers Workshop. We brought in 24 other writers and gave away their books, and interviewed them, and featured them. These are some big-name authors, people who were at the time up and coming and now they're very big names.
It became really fun. Miranda expanded her network; she helped promote their work. I had people telling me about this and I'm like, oh, I helped organize that. They're like, oh, wow, everyone's talking about that.
That was really good. It was something that helped her book, it helped her career. It also helped her feel good. That was just like a win all around.
Then when I was working with Amanda Montel, and this is nonfiction, we were working on releasing a paperback of her first book and then moving into the other version. We really looked at her Instagram and thought about, what is she doing there? She had a long history on Instagram from another industry, and really quickly came up with this idea of what she called Amanda University, where she's teaching every day, and she is amazing.
Right away we strategized it, and then she just did it. It was amazing. She had this one-month program. Every day she was teaching a new word. She's a linguist. She had this little persona that she put out, she had props, and it just totally shifted what her Instagram was before to after.
Then she just took that one success, that did really well. She gave me the stats; it was huge growth in terms of both followers and engagement. Then she just took that and ran. Then she did another program and then another, and the idea of that led to a lot of growth.
Now, she's got this huge podcast and another book and she's just doing so many things. But that was an inflection point of taking something that was doing good and then really pivoting it to what she wants to be known for, and really focusing people on that one program, and then her just going off from there and doing amazing work.
Dale L. Roberts: That has to feel really good when you see some of your clients having breakout successes like that.
Dan Blank: I love working with writers and creators. For me, just to be able to talk with them is a pleasure. So, having anything to do with helping them, it is an absolute joy for me.
Dale L. Roberts: Nice. As the publishing landscape continues to evolve, what's one piece of advice you'd give to authors trying to adapt to new trends while staying authentic?
Dan Blank: Don't be freaked out. I think this is the thing where I follow the news to be informed, but I don't follow the news to be freaking out. So, I don't talk about publishing industry news. I'm informed enough with things, but it's this idea of understanding, here is my strategy, here is my voice, here are the people I'm trying to reach.
How can I reach one more person this week? What can I do?
When you bring it down to that level, all of these terrifying trends and changes, all of that stuff that can feel so uncontrolled, we're like, oh, what can I do to reach one more person this week?
Suddenly, it's such an approachable question. I'll email that person that I haven't talked to in six months. I'll do this post I think people want to see. I'll do a three-day challenge. I'll curate the best whatever from this month.
Simple ideas that every week you think about bringing one more person in and you keep replicating that, and suddenly you find it's not just one person.
Dale L. Roberts: Nice. Alright, as we start to wrap up today, it's a little podcast here, I got to ask you, how can our listeners get hold of you or find out more about your services, Dan?
Dan Blank: They can find me at wegrowmedia.com. That's my business, my site. My newsletter on Substack is withdanblank.Substack.com. On social, I'm @danblank. Those are the three places.
Dale L. Roberts: Dan, you've been a pleasure. I think we could probably talk for about two hours because this has been so much fun. Especially, if we could tap into the success stories. I'd love to hear some other less successful stories because I'm sure there's probably something we can learn from some of those things.
But thank you so much for joining me for Self-Publishing with ALLi. We appreciate your time. Thank you.
